Linux not as secure as Windows Server

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Anonymous
11:03:24 EST Jun. 8 2003 #

Yeah and how about the worms that only affected windows servers hm? like the sql slammer, code red, etc etc. Windows more sercure, dont make me laugh.

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Anonymous
15:58:27 EST Jun. 8 2003 #

Code red, comon, it's been a while since that happened. SQL slammer? SQL problem, not Windows.

Windows isn't perfect, but the object based DACL security model implemented in NT is superior to simpler rights based model used in Linux.

Furthermore, MS has been working a LOT harder as of late to shake the security perception problem. Let me ask the Linux folks this? Can you enable a directory integrated certificate auto enrollment solution for users AND computers? Can affect 1000's of machines and users security rights, DACL settings and group memberships through directory integrated policies? How easily can opportunistic IPSec be enabled for 100's of machines in a Linux environment? How easily can you configure secure DDNS with BIND 9?

You see, most Linux users, admins, etc., know nothing about the enterprise Windows world. They know nothing about AD. They understand nothing about NT internals. They think because they know IPChains or how to recompile their kernel, they are qualified to talk trash about the NT world. Well, I am here to say SHUT THE F UP.

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clams
12:40:31 EST Mar. 15 2004 #

I would argue that most Unix/Linux people were at one point Windows admins but who became bored with the simplistic nature of Windows-based systems.
Yes, I'm an MCSE/CCNA/A+ who turned to Unix/Linux because Windows is neither interesting nor a secure model for computing.

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Anonymous
16:32:00 EST Jun. 30 2003 #

This is all a bit ridiculous. There are few hacks on tru 64 and unicos, but that doesn't make them secure by any stretch. Saying "linux" is lumping a large amount of distros together, many of which do not put security as a top priority. If Windows has a "secure" version, I've never heard of it. In the *nix world there are many trusted os and hardened os e.g. openbsd, hardened gentoo, trustix.

Linux is after all a kernel and a distro is merely built around it, while Windows is a complete OS.

It's also a matter of exposure. There are simply more unix, linux and bsd servers exposed to the internet than windows imo. Also skript kiddies tend to target one os more than another. Many black hats don't even bother with windows exploits, while others specialize in them.

And it's not exactly the cream of the crop attacking these servers either. The guys with the better rootkits and zero day exploits aren't the ones defacing and being included in these statistics. Boils down to lazy admins not patching their boxes. If you're running some old distro and spending more on coffee than security then yes u will be hacked.

Anyway, I have nothing against windows other than it being a bit pricey, but these type of statistics are just meaningless garbage. Both Windows AND linux AND vms can all be hardened.

I just love all these paper mcse's and their surveys. At least RH requires a lab test lol.

*nix lover

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Anonymous
11:25:14 EST Jun. 9 2003 #

SQL Slammer an SQL problem? I dont think so, how come only MS SQL servers were affected by SQL Slammer? SQL Slammer was a MS problem so STFU.

Linux and Unix dont have DACL security? use Acces controll Lists (ACL, looks al lot like DACL probably cause MS ripped it) or somthing, their a LOTS of security implementations for Unix available wich are far more sophisticated then DACL. And how easy you can specify a policy for 100's of client pc unix? their are also 100's of ways of doing it with free software, you see thats the problem with windows theirs only one solution for a problem and if you dont like that solution its to bad for you. So you go look at unix performance, and unix security and then talk. Your comment about ipchains demonstrates how stupid you are, iptables is now used.

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Anonymous
20:25:35 EST Jun. 9 2003 #

I would have to agree with the Anonymous who was defending AD. Since you obviously dont know much about the SQL Slammer worm, and that it DID affect SQL, not just MSSQL then that sort of negates the point of your post. Look it up, and read my friend cause it did, one of my clients with Red Hat 8 and a Oracle9i database solution was taken down just like everyone else. Next time, do your research dude. Now Windows isnt prefect, but the guy above has a point. In administration it is much easier to use Windows AD to setup a network in a distributed solution than Linux. Simple fact.

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Anonymous
10:29:56 EST Jun. 10 2003 #

Maybe he does have a point about the distributed networks being easier, but windows more secure then linux, come on dont make me laugh and stop fooling ur selves, how come cisco routers aren't running embedded windows ce if windows is so secure and scalable. And why are big animation movies like final fantasy (SGI IRIX) and Dinosaurs (Amiga) not renderd on windows servers? I admit that in some casses its better to use windows solutions like exchange and office. But the shit on this page like: windows uber secure or The windows file system is soooo much faster then XFS or BFFS come on gimme a freaking break......

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Anonymous
16:45:29 EST Jun. 10 2003 #

Okay, since you clearly didn't understand what I said in my first point, I will ask you again, how easily can you configure advanced security options across multiple systems in a large environment? The fact is, Linux security is a myth created by people who have an intellectual investment in propagating the myth of "'nix" superiority, just as Netware folks try do with their platform.

As for your comments regarding Linux ACL's versus the object based DACL system in NT (2k,XP,2k3), Linux uses a simple rights mask based ACL system defined by the file system and associated system code, not a true object based DACL system. In NT every system object (AD objects, file system objects, threads, processes, semaphores, etc.) has an ACL with a specific rights mask. Linux has NOTHING even approaching the object DACL model implemented in NT OS's. But again, most Linux users, like the rest of the unwashed masses, know nothing of NT internals or security.

Oh, and I was writing ?nix system code before you knew what a computer was, so don?t assume you have even HALF the knowledge I do. You want to talk bottom-half handlers and IRP?s? You know what an INT2e is how it?s related to functions exported by ntdll? Didn?t think so, so step off.

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Anonymous
10:05:49 EST Jun. 19 2003 #

Isn't it true that it is because of the "object based DACL system" that allows malicious programmers to create viruses that use escalation of priveledge attacks using the very same "Security" feature as an "Exploit"?

I mean come on, why does the system tray run as SYSTEM, when it is a visual item displayed in a "USER" context?

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Anonymous
17:48:54 EST Jun. 22 2003 #

1. No it isn't true.
2. The system tray is a UI component that is part of the winstation of the currently logged on user and does not run in the context of anything other than the user.
3. The issue you think you are referring to is that applications with display objects (such as a window or system tray icon) that are owned by an interactive process will receive input from a process running in another security context. This can potentially be used to attack a process running in a privileged context from a non privileged process. Potentially. The app can chose to A. examine the security context of the calling process and/or B. ignore the call. This is not a problem limited to Windows and has nothing to do with the DACL system but rather the inherent flaw of the message passing system used by all windowing subsystems.

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Anonymous
8:44:50 EST Jun. 17 2003 #

so, next time use linucks or winduckxx

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Anonymous
2:21:11 EST Jun. 23 2003 #

So... even after stealing code from SCO, linux still stinks to high heaven, totting up to the tune of 75% (A STAGGERING FIGURE) of all server based breaches worldwide!
This is in sharp contrast to the STRONG Windows system which were only breached 15 % of all servers breached.
This is even more impressive for Windows if you consider that the installed base for Windows is far greater than that of the porous, pathetic, crappy toy operating system called linux.
Plus of course there are far more attacks on Windows servers than any other systems on the planet; WITH MOST OF THE ATTACKS AGAINST WINDOWS SERVERS INITIATED, ORGANIZED AND CARRIED OUT BY MICROSOFT HATING, RABID, HATEFUL, LINUX FUNDAMENTALISTS AND FANATICS!!
Now the day of reckoning is coming for the nasty, anti-social linux haters.
SCI is going to force the linux thieves to regurgitate all the code they have been stealing from Unix over the years.
SEE YOU IN COURT, LINUX SUCKERS!

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Anonymous
5:54:28 EST Jun. 23 2003 #

WOW! What a brilliant, intelligent and insightful post. You are the model for which all other Admins MUST take after. (end sarcasm)
You are obvioiusly an incredibly ignorant or stupid individual by posting "even stealing code from SCO" has not been proven, one way or the other. What exactly are basing "linux sticks to high heaven" on? This report?? This is the same as the Aberdeen report.
-WITH MOST OF THE ATTACKS AGAINST WINDOWS SERVERS INITIATED, ORGANIZED AND CARRIED OUT BY MICROSOFT HATING, RABID, HATEFUL, LINUX FUNDAMENTALISTS AND FANATICS!!-
I think I'm leaning to the stupid side for you. How do you honestly include this statement in your post and try to make it believable? Again, stupid.
-porous, pathetic, crappy toy operating system called linux-
After reading this statement, it's obvioius that you have never even used Linux or don't know how.
Well it's been fun reading postings from such individuals that support an open minded and competitive environment.
Oops. Sorry, I should have put down was the truth, closed, proprietary and MONOPOLISTIC.
Now I must be off, back to the open, social world-wide community of Linux.
Cheers.

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Anonymous
15:06:06 EST Jun. 23 2003 #

Ohhh, the poooor little loonix user doesn't like being on the receiving end. For years we in the Windows world have been silently taking it from you fools. Not anymore. Not ONE useless Linux user or admin I have met has HALF a clue what he/she is talking about. They sit there in front of their crummy gnome of KDE desktop with 20 X-terms open feeling like they are h@)(0rs, trying to make themselves feel all important because they THINK they know more than the rest of the world. Well guess what, just because you can recompile your kernel doesn't mean you know jack.

You OS sucks. It's a lousy kernel with a bunch of truly awful libs piled on top, with the same old cruddy mongrel mix of daemons found in half a dozen better implementations of 'nix. Top it all off with a truly horrendous X -window subsystem, a buttload of utterly craptacular window managers, each with its own crapalistic set of armature hour libraries and you have the making of THE MOST overrated OS in history that survives purely on the hype generated by the flaming liberal techno-weenie press and a bunch of uncompetitive companies that have no real answer to Wintel.

Here in the real world Linux is only grabbing a share of a shrinking 'nix market. It's a lousy system, and you know what, people are beginning to realize it.

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Anonymous
4:47:10 EST Jun. 24 2003 #

WOW! Yet another insightful, intelligent and rational opinion from a Windoze luzer...er, I mean Windows user. Trolling as usual I see.
The receiving end of what?? Of your idiocy? HAH. Please stop, I'm laughing out loud now.
It still amazes me how people like post how Linux users are (from above) MICROSOFT HATING, RABID, HATEFUL, LINUX FUNDAMENTALISTS AND FANATICS!! and yet continue to post like you do. Like a complete imbecile, making yourself out to be that statement.
If you ever get around to actually learing Linux (which I doubt as it appears that your only an MS drone), then post something intelligently. Or better yet, why dont you go over to /. (thats slashdot.org) and post instead of hiding behind these Windows sites. But I doubt that you can find your way.
Cheers

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Anonymous
14:14:51 EST Jun. 25 2003 #

Oh please you know-nothing little troll. I have YET to see a valid technical comment or "insightful" post from someone in your useless little camp. Guess what, you don't know a damn thing, you are just a silly little end-user who THINKS they have a clue because they can read a man page. Oh, and in case your tiny little brain hasn't noticed, you are caught in a stupid, mindless little flame war. The height of idiocy, so welcome to the club moron.

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Anonymous
22:34:23 EST Jun. 25 2003 #

Post from rabid, clueless linux fanatic : "The height of idiocy, so welcome to the club moron. "

Hey loser, the biggest moron club on the planet right now is the semi-educated, vicious attack dogs of the so-called "linux community" who hide behind the bulletin boards on the Internet to spew out their venom.
Way I see it, the pathetic "linux community" is made up of sweaty palmed, anti-social, intellectually challenged, morons who can't get a date, are terrible at sports and use the internet as a means to kid themselves that they are "big" men, and try to make up for their inadequacies.

The same Microsoft hating losers who got their sorry butts by Microsoft in the OS2 wars have now turned masse to the Intellectual Property stealing linux, in the hope that they can take Microsoft down this time.

Sorry guys. Microsoft's server sales keep going UP, even in these depressed times for IT spending, and linux is a joke on the desktop.

By the time those seasoned legal fighters from Utah are through with linux, you clowns will be looking to Pakistan to find someone else to take on Microsoft!

You losers are every bit as bad as Al Quaeda in your hatred of any company that is successful in America.
And like Al Quaeda, you are going to get your sorry butts kicked over and over again!
Get a life, LOSER!

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Anonymous
5:27:29 EST Jun. 26 2003 #

It would appear that you pushed the height just a little higher. You apparently dont seem to know what 'trolling' is. :P

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Clams
12:57:06 EST Mar. 15 2004 #

Funny how the name-calling was initiated by a Windows person. It supports my theory that most Windows administrators are simpletons who know little of computer systems, network security and administration or much beyond the most basic of concepts in the IT world.

For a time I was extremely bitter at Microsoft for leading me to believe through their simple exams that I know much about computers and networks. Only after spending time in the unix/linux world did I understand that there is a whole other world of details happily hidden from the average MCSE in a GUI world populated by little check boxes and drop-down menus.

No, I?m not going to call names at Windows people (Except for the aforementioned ?simpletons? comment, heh)

I would say to you people, Microsoft is fooling you into thinking you know a lot about the real world of computing. After a year of using Linux and FreeBSD I write my firewall scripts, write IDS (Intrusion Detection System) signatures to watch network traffic for suspicious traffic and have a Linux load-balanced cluster of atomic supermen.

I made up that last bit about atomic supermen. It?s a regular Linux cluster. Anyhow, have a look into Linux or Unix. You will definitely learn something.
linux ISO dot org for Free linux/Unix ISOs.

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Anonymous
6:55:20 EST Jun. 25 2003 #

bah. linux, windows. get a real OS.
Use the real unix.
or for someone too scared to try unix, go with bsd.

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Brian Finniff
13:38:18 EST Mar. 19 2004 #

You jerk. I can't even find it. I've called AT&T, they don't know what in the hell I am talking about, besides that I doubt they are compatible.

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Anonymous
23:40:36 EST Jun. 25 2003 #

Brain Dead linux Attack Dog: ? I'm leaning to the stupid side for you. How do you honestly include this statement in your post and try to make it believable?

Easy.
SCO takes out a law suite against linux.
Next day, SCO get their web site viciously attacked and brought down by persons ?unknown? ; wink , wink.
Cause and effect.
Anyone who thinks the nasty, evil anti-capitalist members of the ?linux community? did not take down the SCO web site is smoking something much stronger than what Al Asahaf, the Iraqi Information Minister was smoking!

The ?linux community? has always operated like they were a law unto themselves, and basically has felt free to operate within their own self-made laws, including stealing anyone?s intellectual property whenever the mood strikes them.

Anyone who as much as raised the slightest objection to being robed of their intellectual property was immediately viciously attacked from all angles by the linux propaganda machine, using lies, disinformation and methods that would make even Hitler blush!

Well the chickens are coming home to roost now.

The law suite from SCO is just the beginning.
Expect a WHOLE NEW SLEW OF LAW SUITES from hundreds of firms whose code has been scooped up and illegally appropriated by the linux hover machine!

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Anonymous
5:38:25 EST Jun. 26 2003 #

I think that you mean 'law SUIT'. I dont think that you can fit a SUITE into what SCO is doing. Unless of course its BS. LOL!
Anyway, you losers have been fun. It's great to see that stupidity and ignorance still reign in MS Land and you only have to be a retard to continue to use MS products as they do the thinkin for ya.
Well, back to the intelligent part of the web.

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Anonymous
19:53:41 EST Jun. 26 2003 #

Brain dead linux fanatic:"It's great to see that stupidity and ignorance still reign in MS Land "

MOST of the ignorance and stupidity on the entire planet is concentrated on the linux Goebbels like propaganda sites like slashdot.

There is more hatred, evil, stupidity, nasty mindedness, sheer bloody mindedness and propagation of hatred against America, freedom and free enterprise on slashdot and other linux fanatic sites than any other site on the planet!

Talk about the cattle calling the pot black. LOL!

You want fanaticism, BS, stupidity, ignorance, absolute refusal to face facts and the truth, and a bunch of slimy creeps living in cloud cuckoo land, then go to slashdot or any of the other fanatically rabid linux sites!

"Intelligent part of the web"? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You mean the part of the web where everyone is uniformly brain dead and have their heads in the sand and think linux is the magic elixir that makes people 20 feet tall and solves all the world's problems?

Don't make me laugh, creep!!

BTW. Make sure you stay in your stupid, drug induced, airy-fairy slashdot/linux world and DON'T COME BACK, OK?

GOOD RIDDANCE, THAT'S WHAT I SAY!!

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Anonymous
2:52:10 EST Jun. 28 2003 #

I enjoy this. People talking about the merits of Windows can bring out facts, figures, and explain why thinking Windows is inherently insecure is a misconception.

The Pro-Linux side refutes with : "Come on don't me laugh."

Gotta love that fanboyism.

In the end, the Admin is what makes the system secure. And from the obvious maturity of Linux zealots, we can see why Linux is losing it's edge.